The PlayStation 2 was a stalwart beast, selling over 155 million units in its lifetime, and that lifetime was an absurdly long one, lasting over twelve years. Much like the OG PlayStation, the system owes much of its success to the myriad of RPGs released for it. Though the competition had no shortage of classics in other genres, the PS2 is where you went for role-playing games — the amount of genre releases for the console handily outnumbers both the GameCube and Xbox.
It’s on this system that all-time classics were born, new franchises exploded onto the scene, and once-niche series shot their way to stardom. Sadly, for every series that calls the PS2 its birthplace, another calls it their final resting place. There’s no shortage of interesting and just plain weird cult classics here, and many of them unfortunately never saw any follow-ups or re-releases in the generations since.
After Final Fantasy VII virtually popularized JRPGs overnight on the PS1, the PS2 continued the golden era of role-playing games. Though the system boasts well over 100 RPGs to pick from, today, we’re looking at 20 of the PS2’s best. These are the games that shone the brightest, left the deepest impressions, and formed the most dedicated cult followings.
20. Drakengard
At a glance, Drakengard’s Metacritic score of 63 isn’t really anything to write home about. Its action RPG combat is regarded as unremarkable and middling at best, but no one ever really remembers the series for its gameplay anyways. Drakengard was helmed by eccentric director Yoko Taro, and if you’re playing anything he’s made, you’re there for the story and madness that ensues from it.
Drakengard is remembered for its dark, macabre, and outright bizarre story that only got weirder with each successive playthrough. Even more than that, perhaps, it’s remembered for how one of its multiple endings eventually gave rise to the critically acclaimed (and equally dark) Nier series — though to explain how would constitute spoilers and be a disservice to the experience.
Even on its own narrative merits, it’s still worth checking out just to see its creator’s roots. As with Yoko Taro’s subsequent works, Drakengard has developed a cult following for unabashedly dealing with heavy and disturbing themes — such as incest and cannibalism — that most other titles steer clear from.
19. Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim
Nihon Falcom’s long running Ys series is notable for two things: its simple, fast-paced action RPG combat, and the fact that games collectively chronicle the adventures of one man by the name of Adol Christin. Though there are now ten mainline titles in the series (with an eleventh coming west this year), Ys VI remains perhaps the most pivotal game in the series.
For starters, Ys VI was the first entry in eight years, following a period of dormancy due in part to Ys V’s lackluster reception. It was also the second Ys game ever to reach western shores. Ys VI revitalized the series, introducing a simple, Zelda-esque combat system, along with a dedicated jump button and aerial attacks. This formula proved successful enough to be used in later entries like Ys Origin, before Falcom changed things up once again with Ys SEVEN.
And narratively, though each Ys title is a relatively self-contained adventure, Adol’s many journeys also steadily build up a surprising amount of lore, and Ys VI is the point in the series where it pays off. Long time fans who’ve played the other entries are rewarded with revelations that finally explain aspects of the lore that were only hinted at in prior games.
If you’re a player that needs a break from all of the number crunching of modern RPGs, you can’t go wrong with the simple yet addictive combat system of Ys VI.
18. Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Among the many IPs Capcom has under its umbrella is the Breath of Fire series. Initially conceived as a fantasy turn-based RPG, its fifth (and currently final, not counting Breath of Fire 6, which is a defunct gacha game) entry takes things in a decidedly more sci-fi and post-apocalyptic direction.
In a world where the planet’s surface has been rendered uninhabitable, humanity lives in underground bunkers. Social stratification sees lower class citizens trapped in the deeper, more polluted levels, while those of wealth and status enjoy a cleaner environment in the levels above. After meeting a mute girl named Nina, protagonist Ryu finds himself on the path of rebellion against his world’s government.
Unique to the game is the Scenario Overlay system, wherein players are encouraged to repeatedly restart their playthroughs, carrying over the gear and stats in the process. It’s a novel form of New Game Plus that doesn’t require completing the story to access, and similar to the Drakengard and Nier series, repeat playthroughs unveil new cutscenes and details that add much more nuance to the plot. With how commonplace New Game Plus is as a mechanic in modern games, it’s unfortunate that there aren’t more titles out there with such a unique take on the concept.
17. Wild Arms 3
Sony today may be known for their emphasis on publishing lavish, narrative focused single-player experiences, but their history with such games stretches much further back. Originating on the PS1, the Wild Arms series distinguishes itself with its weird west settings that incorporate fantasy, sci-fi, and steampunk elements. Though every game takes place on a planet named Filgaia, every entry is its own continuity and universe, with only the name of the setting and narrative themes being shared.
Wild Arms 3 begins in classic western fashion, with a group of drifters boarding a train intent on stealing a treasure within. Despite initially getting into a standoff, they ultimately form a team to track down another treasure known as the Eternal Sparkle. Like in any other good RPG, the scope of the journey eventually becomes much bigger, with the fate of the world at stake.
Though it doesn’t reinvent the wheel by any means, Wild Arms 3 is still a fundamentally solid turn-based RPG with an intriguing plot, unique setting, and great soundtrack. It definitely shows some age with unusual design choices — such as how exploration and random encounters are handled — but is otherwise still regarded as one of the stronger games in the series, and a great PS2 classic in its own right.
16. Monster Hunter
Rough and unrefined as it may be, this is where one of Capcom’s most popular IPs got its start. The original Monster Hunter introduced the formula we all know and love today — after making preparations in a village, players head out on quests to hunt monsters and gather items. And with the materials earned from these hunts and quests, you’ll craft stronger gear to hunt even more dangerous beasts.
As the first entry in the series, Monster Hunter does have some major oddities. For one, all melee attacks were performed with the right analog stick — something almost completely unheard of in the action RPG space. And while things like the UI and art style are still recognizable today, the game definitely carries a different vibe and ambience to it, with a less bombastic, but more tense OST compared to later entries.
Even the robust online multiplayer the series is known for is present and correct in this very first outing. Or at least, it was. The online servers were sadly shut down in 2008, but during its heyday, the game featured a dedicated online hub, 4-player quests, and even a form of text chat if you had a USB keyboard on you.
Capcom may be on a roll these days with their sequels and remakes, but the original Monster Hunter definitely represents a more experimental era that’s definitely worth revisiting if you’re curious.
15. Grandia II
Following on from the acclaim and success of Grandia on the PS1, developer Game Arts saw fit to follow up with a darker, more refined sequel. Like the first game, Grandia II features a turn-based combat system with elements reminiscent of Final Fantasy’s ATB, albeit with the twist of being able to delay or cancel enemy attacks with good timing.
While it doesn’t reinvent the wheel and is generally regarded as being easier than the first game, Grandia II is hailed for its improvements in both gameplay and story. In contrast to the previous entry’s lighthearted tale of adventure, this outing stars a rude and cynical mercenary named Ryudo, as he embarks on the task of tracking down the fragments of an ancient evil god after a job for the Church of Granas goes awry.
Originally released for the Dreamcast, Grandia II was ported to the PS2 in 2002. Though the port doesn’t quite stick the landing on the technical side of things, it’s still serviceable and a decent way to play a beloved JRPG classic.
14. Dark Cloud 2/Dark Chronicle
Level-5 may not have the same household recognition of Capcom or Square Enix, but they’re still a prolific RPG studio in their own right, and as we’ll see later on this list, they’ve had their share of hits even in their earlier days on the PS2. They made a strong debut with Dark Cloud, a dungeon crawling action RPG with city building elements.
Dark Chronicle (Dark Cloud 2 in the U.S), like its predecessor, primarily emphasizes dungeon crawling in its core gameplay loop. Combat is a simple hack and slash affair, with extra gameplay styles, like a pilotable mech, being unlocked through story progress. Georama, the city building mode, consists of finding blueprints, crafting items and buildings, and arranging them as the player sees fit, with minimum requirements in place to progress the story.
Dark Chronicle improved on virtually everything Dark Cloud first introduced. Voice acting was introduced, the city building mechanics were expanded and made more flexible, the weapon durability system was made less punishing, and lots of minigames were added. The visuals also saw a shift to a more cel-shaded style — one that still holds up well despite the game’s release in the early 2000’s. These improvements would go on to earn Dark Chronicle a number of nominations and accolades, as well as a place in Level-5 fans’ fond memories.
13. Odin Sphere
Vanillaware may be the talk of the town in strategy RPG circles right now for their recent release of Unicorn Overlord, but their success stretches as far back as 2007, when they made their PS2 debut with releases of GrimGrimoire and Odin Sphere.
Unlike many of the other games on this list, Odin Sphere is a 2D side-scrolling beat-‘em-up RPG with a distinctive storybook-esque art style courtesy of director and artist George Kamitani. The game also features five different storylines, each with a different protagonist. Uniquely, it’s all framed as a bunch of storybooks being read by a young girl in her attic.
But like several other entries on this list, this proved to be a winning formula, and Vanillaware has since gone on to carve out its own niche in the action and tactical RPG spaces. Odin Sphere hasn’t been forgotten, though, having received a remake in 2016 that was likewise acclaimed.
12. Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria
Beyond the big RPG franchises that Square Enix is usually known for, they have a habit of pushing out smaller, original IP. tri-Ace’s Valkyrie Profile series is one such example. The Norse-flavored series’ first entry on the PS1 was a success, enough to warrant a prequel on the PS2 that was ultimately just as well received.
Set hundreds of years before the events of the PS1 classic, Valkyrie Profile 2 stars a young princess named Alicia. From her youth, Alicia has been having conversations with another soul sealed inside of her — that of the valkyrie Silmeria, who was banished for rebelling against Odin, and sealed away within Alicia’s body. With knowledge of Odin’s plans in mind, Alicia and Silmeria set out to avert a catastrophe that could lead to Ragnarok.
Valkyrie Profile 2 is perhaps one of the most unique games on this list. Exploration is done entirely in side-scrolling 2D with basic platforming elements. Battles, meanwhile, are a sort of hybrid between turn-based and action combat. While there are action elements, like combos, time is frozen when the player doesn’t move, allowing for a degree of strategy and planning. Einherjar — the souls of the dead — are optional recruits that will make up the bulk of the party.
It’s a shame that the series has been mostly dormant since then, and that Valkyrie Elysium, the first entry in over 15 years, ended up abandoning what made this game so intriguing.
11. Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Set in the early 1910’s, Shadow Hearts was an unusual PS2 RPG that infused real historical events and figures with elements of Lovecraftian horror. Though reception was mostly positive, the game lacked polish and had the misfortune of being released just before Final Fantasy X — in both Japan and the U.S.
Its direct sequel, Shadow Hearts: Covenant, went on to be acclaimed and is regarded as among the best JRPGs of all time. Like its predecessor, it features a snappy turn-based battle system that uses QTEs in the form of the Judgment Ring mechanic to empower attacks. There’s also a unique sanity system, wherein party members lose sanity points every turn, and become uncontrollable when their SP is fully depleted.
Among other things, Shadow Hearts — and its sequel especially — are known for being quite goofy. Despite the use of supernatural horror, there’s quite a bit of comedy to be had, with memorable one-liners such as this.
Covenant improved virtually everything its predecessor did right, and gave us a noticeable improvement in graphical presentation to boot. As the pinnacle of the cult classic series, it still holds up well to this day — and new players are still discovering it for the first time all these years later.
10. Suikoden III
Back when Konami was still in the public’s good graces, the Suikoden series was among the many beloved classics that they pumped out. Its second entry on the PS1, though overshadowed a bit by other RPGs like Final Fantasy VII, is now recognized as among that console’s best, and features regularly on top RPG lists.
Of the three entries available on the PS2, Suikoden III is usually cited as the best of the bunch. Like the rest of the series, it features 108 recruitable characters, known as the Stars of Destiny. This third entry introduces the Trinity Sight System, which sees the player switching between multiple different protagonists.
The Suikoden series features turn-based combat with parties of six. While battles still feature six-person teams in Suikoden III, this entry instead has the player control characters in pairs, streamlining battles while at the same time forcing players to use more strategy in party compositions and what attacks they use.
The story was hailed as more mature and morally gray, too, in an era where such a creative direction in JRPGs was still in a state of relative infancy.
9. Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance
Though it’s part of an RPG multimedia empire that’s known for number crunching and dice rolls, Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance presents a more actionized take on the Forgotten Realms.
Dark Alliance sees players picking between three potential different classes. Upon arriving in the eponymous city of Baldur’s Gate, the chosen protagonist is robbed and knocked unconscious. When they awaken in a tavern, they find that the thieves have been using the establishment’s sewer entrance to infiltrate the city, and further exploration reveals that this shadowy group is connected to a larger conspiracy.
While Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance isn’t as story driven as its main series brethren, it’s known and beloved for its hack-and-slash gameplay, which takes after the Diablo series. There’s a simple and satisfying progression system at play — leveling up gives you points with which to spend on your character’s skills and attributes — and lots of loot to find as you explore the game’s mostly linear dungeons. There’s even couch co-op play, something that’s become a rare relic of the past in the decades since its release.
If you’re coming off of Baldur’s Gate 3 and are still reeling from the fact that Larian Studios will be moving on from the franchise, perhaps this old PS2 spinoff will prove to be a nice diversion.
8. Xenosaga Episode I: Der Wille zur Macht
Every long-time creator has their own style — or fingerprint — that shows up throughout all of their works. For Director Tetsuya Takahashi, it’s ambition. From the long, complex, and philosophical plots of Xenogears and Xenosaga, to the vast worlds of Xenoblade, all of his titles can suitably be called massive.
But simply getting to the point where he is today has been a struggle, with developmental issues and corporate disagreements that threatened to cause Takahashi’s ideas to buckle under their own weight. With him being unable to fully realize his vision for Xenogears, Xenosaga was his second attempt.
With a budget of about 1 billion yen, the first episode of the Xenosaga trilogy left a strong impression, putting its complex story front and center with long cutscenes, starring a cast of multifaceted characters with voice acting that still holds up well to this day.
Its combat system, though a bit sluggish, was a more polished iteration of Xenogears’ ideas, with extra mechanics like Boost adding a bit more depth. A skill tree also added a modicum of character customization, though as you’ll find over the course of the 30-40 hour runtime, the focus of this game is squarely on story over gameplay.
Despite the promising start of Episode I, however, Episode II is regarded as being much more uneven in quality, though Episode III managed to salvage things just in time to conclude the trilogy on a high note.
7. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
Before Atlus had teenagers fighting Shadows in humanity’s collective unconscious, it had teenagers fighting demons in post-apocalyptic Tokyo. And Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne pulls no punches, with the end of the world merely being the beginning of the story. With the ruined remains of Tokyo being all that’s left after the Conception, Nocturne’s protagonist sets out to recreate the world in accordance to one of the many ideologies he’ll encounter on the way.
Rather than having a rich storyline with deep characters, Nocturne prides itself on its grim, moody atmosphere and surreal environments. If it’s one thing that Atlus has always excelled at, it’s taking familiar urban settings and twisting them in a way that’s wholly their own.
And at the center of the proceedings is the brutally challenging Press Turn combat system. Score a critical hit or strike an opponent’s weakness, and you’ll earn an extra turn. But miss an attack, and you’ll lose two of your team’s turns — or even all of them if your attack gets absorbed or repelled. These rules apply to everyone, enemies included. It’s easy to see how an advantage or disadvantage can quickly snowball, and the result is a deeply strategic battle system that demands proper use of all of the tools at your disposal, especially buffs and debuffs.
6. Final Fantasy XII
If it’s one thing that Final Fantasy has become synonymous with, it’s change. Every game already features brand new settings and characters, but starting with the PS2 era, Square Enix began experimenting with new combat systems as well. Born of a desire to make combat and exploration seamless, Final Fantasy XII features a fresh iteration on the classic ATB system.
Battles take place on the field, in real time, without any separate screens or transitions; commands are issued via menu, and executed when a character’s ATB gauge is full. While you’re free to repeatedly issue commands to the whole party, the newly introduced gambit system allows you to program the party’s AI to react to specific circumstances. Under the right hands, micromanagement is nonexistent; a competent team will bowl over almost anything in its path with little input. It might make the game too automated for some, but it’s a small price to pay for an AI customization system that still has yet to be topped.
Ivalice remains one of the series’s richest settings to date, with vibrant detail at every corner, world building that puts even some modern Final Fantasy games to shame, and a story filled with political intrigue.
And that plot still holds up, if it’s your sort of thing. There’s no shortage of Final Fantasy tropes like crystals, defying fate, and warring nations. But there’s also a bigger focus on fantasy politics, elevated by the fantastic localization courtesy of Alexander O. Smith, who gave the game an eloquent script and hired actors with experience in theatre.
All of this lends Final Fantasy XII a distinctive flavor that makes it stand out even in a series known for completely changing things up with each new installment.
5. Tales of the Abyss
Tales of the Abyss is beloved and frequently cited as one of the series’s best entries, and for good reason. Its protagonist, Luke fon Fabre, is immature and can be absolutely insufferable at times. But put up with his antics for the first ten or so hours, and Tales of the Abyss blossoms into a wonderfully dark story about trauma, prophecy, and blind faith, replete with some of the best character development in series history.
Like other games in the series, Abyss is an action RPG that plays something like a simplified fighting game. Characters have basic attack combos, which can be linked to a variety of artes or spells. Prior Tales entries strictly limited combat to a 2D plane; while Tales of Symphonia brough the series to full 3D for the first time, it still limited its characters to running in straight lines towards or away from their selected target.
Tales of the Abyss introduced Free Run, letting players move freely across the battlefield at will by holding down L2. Free Run would be a staple mechanic of the series from that point on, up until Tales of Berseria and Tales of Arise removed the distinction entirely and played more like you’d expect from modern 3D action RPGs.
Unique to this entry was the Field of Fonons system, wherein repeatedly using artes or spells would spawn and charge up elemental circles on the ground. Once fully charged, these fields alter the next arte or spell used if the attacker is standing within.
Abyss also features some of the best world building in the series. Sure, there’s a bit of fantasy technobabble, but how the game presents its lore, develops its world, and ties it all back into the main story makes it the most well-realized setting in the franchise.
And hey, the game even features up to 4-player co-op — assuming you have a Multitap — like most other entries in this series prior to Tales of Arise.
4. Kingdom Hearts II
When Square producer Shinji Hashimoto had a chance meeting with a Disney executive in an elevator, nobody could’ve predicted that this was what would come of it. 2002’s Kingdom Hearts presented audiences with a crossover that, in some respects, still feels like an absolute fever dream.
While the first Kingdom Hearts is a beloved classic in its own right, Kingdom Hearts II (and its eventual Final Mix updated re-release) is still considered by some to be the pinnacle of the series in both story and combat.
After awakening from a year-long slumber due to the events of Chain of Memories, Sora is tasked with dealing with a new threat in the form of Organization XIII, a shadowy group who seeks to use the power of Kingdom Hearts for their own ends.
It’s a bit of a darker tale than its predecessors, and this is also reflected in the combat system, which has been made much faster and more stylish to match. Beyond the first game’s basic combos, magic, and Disney summons, Kingdom Hearts II also introduces the beloved Drive Forms, transformations that alter Sora’s abilities and allow him to dual-wield Keyblades.
This combat is hailed as the best in the series, and it’s easy to see why — with over the top sequences and set pieces that can go toe-to-toe with the likes of the Final Fantasy VII Advent Children movie, Kingdom Hearts II’s battles will linger in the memories of anyone who plays it for a long time to come.
Kingdom Hearts II also notably streamlined world exploration. Gone are the more labyrinthic worlds and platforming challenges of the first entry; areas are easier to explore, and maps were introduced to help with navigation. It’s a design philosophy that’s stuck with the series, up until Kingdom Hearts 3D and Kingdom Hearts III moved back towards more in-depth exploration.
The series may have a reputation for being absolutely bonkers, but it’s all the better for it. The gaming industry just wouldn’t be the same without the wild storytelling and sheer creativity on display that’s capable of making even the edgiest of teenagers pay attention to Disney’s IPs.
3. Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
If there’s one thing you can count on with Dragon Quest, it’s consistency. The series may not innovate anywhere near as much as its contemporaries, but what it does do is give us one the best turn-based RPGs of the console generation with each new release. The eighth outing — developed by Level-5 — is no different.
As the title implies, Dragon Quest VIII follows the story of a band of heroes, accompanied by the titular cursed king. An attack on Trodain castle leaves nearly all of its inhabitants, including King Trode, transformed, while the assailant, evil court jester Dhoulmagus, makes off with an ancient scepter. The party, led by a castle guard unaffected by the curse, embarks on a quest to track him down and break the curse on Trodain.
As a first for the series, the original western release featured full English voice acting (the Japanese version had no voice acting until the 3DS release) to bring its colorful cast to life. And colorful they are indeed, as the English localization is hailed as one of the game’s greatest strengths. It’s enough to elevate an otherwise straightforward story into something truly special.
And while this series doesn’t aim to reinvent the wheel with every new entry, Dragon Quest VIII does introduce several major new features. The Alchemy Pot introduces item creation to the series, while the Tension mechanic lets characters charge up for their next attack — and essentially go Super Saiyan in the process.
The Dragon Quest series — especially this entry — is living proof that immaculate polish goes a long way, even in the absence of revolution and innovation. What Dragon Quest VIII does well, it does so well that it’s earned a spot on many a list of the best games in the series and best RPGs in general.
2. Persona 3
The one that people know as “that game where teenagers fight supernatural creatures by shooting themselves in the head.”
The Persona series’ first outing on the PS2 saw a radical reinvention that would go on to define it from that point on. No longer merely a dungeon-crawling RPG, Persona 3 introduced dedicated social sim elements. During the day, you’ll go to school, study for exams, partake in any number of activities around town, and spend time with Social Links.
Every night, a mysterious phenomenon called the Dark Hour occurs, where time “freezes” at midnight, and strange creatures called Shadows come crawling out. Most people are transmogrified into coffins and are thus unaware of anything happening around them, but those who have the potential can remain conscious during the Dark Hour and fight Shadows by summoning manifestations of their inner self — their Persona.
As part of a group of high school students capable of combating this threat, you’ll lead a group named SEES in exploring Tartarus, a massive tower dungeon that your school transforms into every night. Despite being composed of randomly generated floors, Tartarus exudes its own eerie atmosphere that few other Atlus titles have attempted to replicate since. Of course, all of this is also set to a backdrop of some of the catchiest J-pop music you’ll find on the PS2.
As has become the norm for Atlus titles, Persona 3 received multiple updated rereleases — the first of which was Persona 3 FES, which made tweaks to balancing and added a hard mode. The headlining act of these additions, however, was The Answer — a 30+ hour epilogue that expanded on the main story’s themes and characters.
Though Persona 4 went on to refine the formula introduced here, the darker story and heavy themes of Persona 3 have aged far more gracefully in the years since.
1. Final Fantasy X
Back in the late ‘90s and early 2000’s, Final Fantasy still had a reputation for being a trailblazer in video game presentation and storytelling, whether it was Final Fantasy VII’s stunning FMV sequences or Final Fantasy X’s full voice acting and use of motion capture.
Sure, the voice performances come off as a bit stiff today, but the story they bring to life still remains one of the most captivating in the series. Blitzball star and fish-out-of-water Tidus finds himself washed up in the tropical fantasy world of Spira, before embarking on an emotional journey as a guardian of Yuna, a summoner undertaking a pilgrimage to stop a destructive beast known as Sin.
It’s a tale that still holds strong today, diving deep into themes like blind faith, the consequences of constant self-sacrifice, and the kind of despair a troubled world constantly under threat would be subjected to. And in a world like Spira, an undercurrent of emotional resolve — and resignation — runs deep, be it for the state of the world, or the ultimate outcome that all high summoners must face in their journey to defeat Sin.
Owing to its vibrant, colorful art style and Asian-infused setting, Spira still holds up as one of, if not the most beautiful Final Fantasy worlds. There’s a strong aquatic motif that permeates every aspect of the game and its world, and nowhere is that more apparent than in the iconic sending ceremony in Kilika, where Yuna guides the souls of those killed in Sin’s attack to the Farplane.
Final Fantasy X’s Conditional Turn-Based Battle system (CTB) is also a contender for the best in the series, offering a surprising amount of flexibility, strategy, and challenge. The use of the Sphere Grid in place of traditional levels also resulted in some of the most robust character customization the series had seen at the time, digging straight into what makes RPGs so satisfying to play.
And who can forget the soundtrack? Despite having not even been composed for the game specifically, To Zanarkand remains one of the most iconic and emotional pieces in Final Fantasy history.
Final Fantasy X is a veritable masterpiece, one that was successful enough to spawn the series’ first direct sequel in the form of Final Fantasy X-2. But perhaps we’ll save that one for another day.
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